Joe Hamilton
Joining me today is the recently retired—but still very active—Carl Lavender. Welcome.
Carl Lavender
Good to see you as always. I’m proud of your work and accomplishments. You’re still a catalyst for change in our community.
Joe Hamilton
I try my best. Following in great footsteps—
Carl Lavender
I’m flattered. Keep it coming. Keep it coming.
Joe Hamilton
We will! I’ll pepper them in.
One thing that’s really unique about your career is that you’ve been serving people since you were basically a child. You followed in your father’s footsteps as a pastor, and it seems like this work has been in you from day one. Is that a fair assessment?
Carl Lavender 1:19
That’s fair. I was raised as what they call a PK—a preacher’s kid. My father, in Cleveland, Ohio, was an evangelist. Our house became a place for people in transition in their faith journey. He was my role model and my hero. To this day, my own faith is rooted in how he navigated family life and his leadership. He started out in a storefront church, which grew into a sizable congregation. I watched that journey—how he dealt with both difficult and wonderful people. It shaped how I see life: start small, build with intention, and lead with purpose. I don’t regret a single moment of that childhood.
Joe Hamilton 2:10
When you watched him work with people—families, congregants—you must have seen all kinds of highs and lows. How did it feel to witness that growing up?
Carl Lavender 2:27
He was the friendliest person you’d ever meet. He truly knew no strangers. He could start a conversation in a grocery store, and soon a small crowd would gather just to hear him talk. He had a charisma that drew people in. I watched how he’d wrap things up gracefully when the moment needed to end, how he followed through, and how he built relationships. It was inspiring and strategic.
But his self-care wasn’t great. That wasn’t a conversation back then. The workaholic lifestyle was a badge of honor, and he worked himself into a heart attack. Watching that made me intentional about pacing my own life. I’ve had health challenges too, but I’ve learned to take breaks when needed. My mother also played a huge role—she was grounded, deeply committed to good character and responsibility. Between the two of them, I learned faith, integrity, discipline, and hard work.
Joe Hamilton 4:36
It seems like that openness—meeting no strangers—was both a blessing and a curse. If every person is an opportunity, and you actually follow through, it becomes a lot of work.
Carl Lavender 4:52
That’s right. My mom became the gatekeeper. My dad would come home and carry all the day’s episodes into the house. She’d say, “Leave that in the car. Your kids need you now.” He’d even speak in his pastoral cadence at home—“Pass the potato! Turn the channel!” She’d remind him, “You’re not preaching right now. You’re at home.” It was funny but very purposeful. She wanted him present with us.
Joe Hamilton 5:44
When you grow up around someone so extroverted and on all the time, did you feel pressure to match that energy? Or did it feel aspirational?
Carl Lavender 6:04
It was a mix. Believe it or not, I’m naturally introverted. People don’t always see that. But yes, there’s pressure—especially when you’re the one on stage. You may not feel well, but you’re expected to inspire. I internalized that. I learned from my dad how to read a room and lead a crowd, but when it’s over, I need time to recharge. I’m not someone who sticks around too long at events. I need to exhale and reset. That balance works for me. My dad didn’t have that, but I’ve learned to build it in.
Joe Hamilton 7:46
This foreshadows a bit of your next steps in Chicago. But first—how did your father manage the financial side of running a church?
Carl Lavender 8:10
Great question. The “five loaves and two fish” principle really applied. He knew how to stretch a dollar—so did my mom. I know I’ve out-earned him, but he made every dollar count. He wasn’t obsessed with revenue—he focused on frugality and building long-term stability. He bought a home, moved us out of the inner city. He was intentional.
He also taught us the value of having little. That’s a big lesson. During my teen years, I struggled with peer pressure—hand-me-downs,—but he’d say, “If you can handle a little, you’ll appreciate a lot.” I still live by that.
Joe Hamilton 10:43
Didn’t have Publix BOGOs back then either!
Carl Lavender 10:46
Nope! We had A&P in Cleveland, and everything in the cabinets was black-and-white generic. I told myself, “One day, I’ll have real brands in my pantry.” When I got my first apartment, going to the deli felt like a luxury.
Joe Hamilton 11:10
So when you hit that inevitable rebellious phase, did anything stick from it? Or was it just a season?
Carl Lavender 11:31
It came and went. You seek your own path, find relationships and systems that let you grow. I’ve always had a bit of a maverick side—it makes some people uncomfortable. But for me, it’s about growth. Are we creating new ideas, raising the bar, helping people? If so, it’s worth shaking things up a bit.
Joe Hamilton 12:47
When is it appropriate to go full maverick?
Carl Lavender 12:57
When you’re in a room full of bureaucrats and the data is clearly showing something’s broken—but no one’s acting on it. That’s when you have to speak up and push forward. It might go against the grain, but it’s necessary. Sometimes, it’s uncomfortable, but you leave something behind—new ideas, new possibilities—for others to build on.
Here is the continuation of the transcript with edits for clarity and grammar, preserving the conversational tone and speaker names:
Joe Hamilton 14:46
So you moved—after growing up in Ohio—your professional growth really took off in Chicago.
Carl Lavender 14:51
You know me too well, Joe—oh my gosh.
Joe Hamilton 14:55
Tell me about that time and how Chicago transformed you.
Carl Lavender 14:59
I had a mentor who gave me great counsel. In Columbus, Ohio, I had done some good work, but I hit a plateau. I looked at my cash flow, considered my children’s future, and realized it wouldn’t grow where I was. My mentor told me to look beyond small Midwest cities. So I tried Detroit—interviewed, but lost the job to a beloved local candidate. Then I went to Chicago and was hired by the Boys and Girls Clubs of Chicago to lead the Dr. King Club on the West Side.
Coming from Columbus to the West Side of Chicago? Major culture shock. There was a gang war going on around our building. It required energy and skills I hadn’t yet developed. I called my mentor to thank him—because it was the push I needed to truly test myself. I learned so much there. Chicago made me who I am professionally. I got promoted several times and eventually became Senior Vice President of the largest Boys and Girls Club organization in the country.
One of my proudest achievements was the James Jordan Boys and Girls Club, named after Michael Jordan’s father. We raised millions of dollars with Michael and his family. That was a milestone in both my fundraising and youth development careers. Chicago changed everything for me. I made more money, moved into a better apartment, gained cultural exposure—art, philanthropy, networking.
I joined Urban Gateways, a group of African Americans studying and collecting art. We visited homes, discussed art, and learned from major philanthropists. One of them, Renee Crown, once told me, “Carl Lavender, if you want to be a good fundraiser, continue to be a popular dinner guest.” That stuck with me.
Joe Hamilton 18:39
That’s interesting—because you were thrown into an intense environment on both ends. The gang violence, yes, but also the high-society world of funders and philanthropists. How did you handle that juxtaposition?
Carl Lavender 19:11
There was definitely some fear on the West Side. I was on the corner of Washington and Sacramento—people in Chicago know what that means. But I had a job to do. I remembered my parents—“Do your job.” At the same time, I began noticing how different the lives were in the Development Office downtown. They worked in a corporate high-rise, had better offices, more access.
So I started volunteering for every project in development. I worked the door, helped with events, spoke at luncheons. They started calling on me more often. That’s how I transitioned from the club into the corporate office. And the rest is history.
Joe Hamilton 20:46
That’s what I’d call operating—seeing opportunity, connecting dots. Your dad did it too. Does that feel like a fair term?
Carl Lavender 21:10
Absolutely. I tell people all the time: you are your first business. You are the president and CEO of your name. How you invest in yourself matters. Your logic model—your plan for your life—matters. So yes, I was operating, and I learned that every opportunity to present myself was also a moment to grow and to give.
Joe Hamilton 21:45
Great operators create value for themselves and everyone around them.
Carl Lavender 21:51
Exactly—if you’ve discovered your gifts. If you’re not doing that, I encourage you to start. Don’t bury your talents. Share them. Use them to benefit others.
Joe Hamilton 22:14
Let’s talk about the Jordan Center. That was such a special opportunity. How did it come about?
Carl Lavender 22:20
Michael Jordan’s father died tragically, as everyone knows. There was national mourning, but in Chicago, it was deeply personal. Mr. Jordan was like a father figure to the team. He traveled with them, was close to Michael. Our national office had tried to reach Michael for a major gift, but he wasn’t returning calls.
Eventually, he responded to me. That’s a point of pride. He made his first major philanthropic gift—to us and to the University of North Carolina. We talked about life, family, even clothes. His sister was a spoken word artist. It was brief but meaningful. And after that, like many celebrities who ascend to iconic status, he disappeared behind gatekeepers.
But I got to know his mom very well and worked on several projects with her. That moment, the creation of the James Jordan Boys and Girls Club, is a career highlight for me.
Joe Hamilton 24:39
Why do you think he hadn’t given philanthropically before that?
Carl Lavender 24:43
At the time, players’ contracts didn’t offer the kind of wealth needed for major gifts. But once endorsements came in, the game changed. Michael was a pioneer—one of the first to make multimillion-dollar gifts. I’m just grateful to have been part of that chapter.
Joe Hamilton 25:24
Let’s talk about your move to St. Pete and the Boys and Girls Club here. How did that happen?
Carl Lavender 25:35
It was a corporate move. I was Senior VP in Chicago and ready for the next step—President and CEO. But the message from my CEO was, “Not this job.” So I called our national staff and said, “I’m ready to move.” I wanted to be a CEO while the opportunity still had relevance.
I interviewed in St. Pete, got the job, and moved here in 1999—sight unseen. I had never even been to Florida before. I moved into a new development on 4th and Gandy. I drove around thinking, “Where am I?” It was such a different pace from Chicago.
Culturally, it was a shift. I showed up to meetings in a suit and tie, like I did in Chicago. Someone at Rotary said, “Take the tie off, man—you’re dressing like you run the place.” It was an adjustment.
I ran the Boys and Girls Clubs of the Suncoast for ten years, then retired.
Joe Hamilton 27:50
So a shock from Chicago, but maybe familiar from your Midwest roots?
Carl Lavender 27:55
Exactly. A return to simpler rhythms. But financially, the organization was in trouble. Anyone taking over a nonprofit—ask to see the balance sheet. Ask how many months of payroll are in reserve. Some boards hire people as a last-ditch effort, and you have to know what you’re walking into. I learned that the hard way.
Here is the final portion of the transcript, edited for clarity, grammar, and flow, with speaker names preserved:
Joe Hamilton 28:42
So, we talked about operating and the access you had in Chicago. Here, that changes. You’re new, and the same level of donors and funders may not be present. Did that shift affect you?
Carl Lavender 28:59
There were definitely moments I thought about going home. I didn’t feel like I was finding my tribe—not necessarily by race or gender, but in terms of people who think progressively. People here seemed more complacent. When I brought up big ideas, the response was often, “This is the beach—what’s the rush?”
In Chicago, we kept clubs open on Saturdays to keep kids off the streets. Here, they were closed. I asked why. “Families are home on Saturdays,” I was told. In Chicago, we stayed open until 10 p.m. Here, we closed at 6. That was a big shift.
And the fundraising? In Chicago, we were talking major gifts—$50,000, $100,000. Here, board members were giving $150, $500. I had never seen anything like it. I told them we couldn’t survive on small gifts. I started organizing the board to think bigger. It was a challenge, but necessary.
Joe Hamilton 30:32
Did that transition—being a “big city guy” in a smaller pond—offer some advantages? Fewer people swimming in your lane?
Carl Lavender 30:52
It definitely attracted curiosity. People started asking, “Who is this guy with these big ideas?” One of those people was Rick Baker. He listened, realized I wasn’t just a sharp suit, and became a huge supporter. Another was Edie Davis. And then Gwen Reese—who, at first, reminded me this wasn’t Chicago! But she understood. She connected me with people like Gypsy Gallardo and Louis Murphy. Eventually, momentum grew, and we started moving toward bigger-ticket impact.
Joe Hamilton 31:58
So, Mayor Baker became a long-term ally?
Carl Lavender 32:03
Absolutely. Everyone hits a pivot point in their career. Mayor Baker and his wife, Joyce, were instrumental in helping me stay in St. Pete. They introduced me to key people. One of them was Bill Edwards, who made a major investment in the Royal Theater. Suddenly, people were hearing, “Carl Lavender just raised $350,000 from Bill Edwards.” That was unheard of in youth work here. It created buzz. I thank Mayor Baker for believing in me.
Joe Hamilton 32:55
Before we started recording, you had a great quote about Lealman and ribbon cuttings—something about visibility and brand. Can you repeat that?
Carl Lavender 33:19
(laughs) I’m trying to remember! But yes, it was about branding. Lealman needs more ribbon cuttings. People need visual signals of growth. Ribbon cuttings create familiarity—people begin to recognize, “Oh, something’s happening here.” Brand brings additive value without taking anything away. And brand builds belief. It’s like South Beach in Miami—you get more than just a meal by the water. It’s the story around it that matters.
Joe Hamilton 34:26
Exactly—and brand builds value. You’ve hinted at that being key to fundraising and community work.
Carl Lavender 34:34
If we can’t bring value—or live by our values—we’re in trouble. It’s one thing to succeed on a balance sheet, but without values, it’s blind ambition. There are people who’ll step on others to get ahead, but that approach has a short shelf life. When you lead with values, you focus on people and systems that have potential. Change agents like us need to offer that gift—our vision, our insight.
Joe Hamilton 35:53
After Boys & Girls Club, you went into education work with PTC, right?
Carl Lavender 35:59
Yes, I joined the Pinellas Education Foundation under Terry Bame. He had a Ford Foundation grant for Next Generation Learning, but the person managing it left right after it launched. Terry called me while I was literally sitting on the beach post-retirement. He said, “Come now.” I walked into his office in shorts and flip-flops and said, “Let’s go.”
I consulted for 18 months. We built out career academies across all high schools. I worked with Dave Barnes and later Mark Hunt. I got to visit schools, talk to principals, and help develop the future workforce. When the grant ended, Dave called and said the marketing person at PTC left. He offered me the job.
It started part-time, then grew. Mark Hunt promoted me to oversee both Clearwater and St. Pete campuses. I ended up presenting to the school board and Dr. Grego. Then Randy Russell called me.
Joe Hamilton 38:00
That call changed things again?
Carl Lavender 38:03
Yes. I had given a presentation on allied health careers, and Randy was in the audience. He was moved. He told me, “We’re looking to fund work like this, but I need you on the team.” I told him to call me in a year. He did—almost to the day.
I joined the Foundation, eventually became interim CEO after Randy left. I helped open the Center for Health Equity and hired Marcus Brooks. That role was the culmination of my nonprofit career—being on the other side of the table, making funding decisions. A real full-circle moment.
Joe Hamilton 41:21
What did being a funder teach you about the people asking for money?
Carl Lavender 41:24
Three things: Be prepared. Be prepared. Be prepared. Don’t assume because you know me that you’ll get funding. We had people say, “Hey, Carl, give us some money for the kids,” and I’d say, “No.” You need data, a real pitch, strong boards, audited financials—structure.
I’m generous by nature, but I learned to balance generosity with accountability. People like Julie Rocco and Randy taught me a lot about that process.
Joe Hamilton 41:50
So, if 20 people apply with equally good causes, the ones who operate best get the money?
Carl Lavender 41:58
In competitive RFPs, yes—it’s all about criteria. But with discretionary philanthropy, you can lean into passion and relationships. I love when someone presents their idea in person. That allows us to adjust—sometimes even give more than they ask, because we see potential. That’s the magic of philanthropy: aligning ideas with strategy.
Joe Hamilton 43:55
With 10,000 nonprofits in Pinellas, did you ever feel the urge to encourage consolidation?
Carl Lavender 44:17
Yes. About 3,000 of those are fully active, but even that’s too many. We need nonprofit reform. We can’t keep creating new orgs for every issue. It’s not sustainable. I like models like the Boys and Girls Clubs of Tampa Bay—one admin overseeing multiple counties.
Boards need to stop waiting for charismatic leaders to save their orgs. And some CEOs need to retire. I get it—401(k)s have been weak, and nonprofit salaries are low—but boards have to be more strategic and less sentimental.
Joe Hamilton 46:35
What about passion projects started in memory of someone—those still create more nonprofits, right?
Carl Lavender 46:59
They do. Some of them stay active, raising scholarship money over time. But it’s not the same as a full-service, community-based nonprofit. We need to be realistic about capacity and sustainability. I’d love to see the IRS place a moratorium on new 501(c)(3)s for a decade. We have enough infrastructure to handle most needs already.
Joe Hamilton 49:13
Do you think there’s a next generation ready to take the reins?
Carl Lavender 49:24
I think the modern generation—those making money through tech portfolios, startups, and platforms like Google—they’re going to ask a very different set of questions. I don’t think they’ll fund countless nonprofit administrations the way boomers have. They’ll ask, “Why are there so many?” And frankly, a lot of that duplication can be resolved through systems—AI, shared data, centralized reporting.
Instead of getting reams and reams of duplicated info from multiple nonprofits all reporting to one funder, the next generation will want efficiency. They’ll be more inclined to have convenings with multiple organizations—even competitors. I don’t think they’re interested in holding power like we sometimes did. They’ll ask, “Why can’t Junior Achievement, the Boy Scouts, and the Boys & Girls Clubs sit in the same room and talk about shared solutions?” I think you’ll see a lot more of that going forward—and I hope we do.
Carl Lavender 50:49
Let’s move to your role as Interim Chief Equity Officer, and then Chief Equity Officer at the City. How did that come about?
Carl Lavender 50:56
I’ve known the Welch family for many years. Mayor Welch’s father welcomed me when I first arrived from Chicago. I met him at an event and he said, “What are you doing down here? Why’d you leave Chicago?” He wanted to hear that I was serious about this place. And I was.
He wasn’t shy—he told me the Boys & Girls Club on 22nd Street South looked like a dump and needed work. We had that kind of relationship—honest and direct. We partnered closely on reopening the Johnny Ruth Clark Health Center. I even chaired the search committee to hire Pat Mabe, the first director of the remodeled campus.
Fast forward, Ken has been a behind-the-scenes champion for me. After I stepped down from the Foundation, he asked me to consider the equity role. I initially said no—I needed space after the intense chapter with Randy Russell. He hired someone else, but when that didn’t work out, he called me again. This time, I said, “I’m ready.”
I joined City Hall for 15 months. It was the perfect storm: the Tropicana Field (Gas Plant) negotiations, three hurricanes, and a presidential election. At times, I felt like I was in a bubble—trying to be seen and push progress simultaneously.
But I’m proud of what we accomplished. George Smith has the role now and will take it further. But I helped open the first full-time equity office for the city. Lyniece Turner turned the key; I turned the future. I hope that legacy continues.
Carl Lavender 53:16
Do you think Mayor Welch, being the first Black mayor and from a multigenerational Black family, feels added pressure and expectation?
Carl Lavender 53:28
I don’t know his personal mindset, but I’m sure legacy is on his mind. His father was a powerful figure. The name “Welch” carries weight in the Black community here. And now, as mayor, Ken has both the loyalty of longtime residents and the expectations of new arrivals asking, “What’s happening in this community?”
There’s pressure. And honestly, I think we sometimes focus too much on City Hall. We don’t watch corporate leadership the same way. Private-sector leaders in this region should be far more invested in South St. Pete—not just the government.
Still, Ken has capable people around him. Watching them manage those storms—it was like watching a movie. And I mean this with admiration: If Ken Welch is Barry Gordy, then Claude Tankersley, Mike Jeffries, and Amy Foster are The Supremes. They’re extraordinary professionals. They don’t get nearly enough credit—or pay. I’m glad they’re starting to receive recognition because they’ve been incredible for the administration.
Carl Lavender 55:21
Let’s close with a big one—the magic wand question. You’ve worked across the entire community impact ecosystem. What’s one thing you wish could be fixed right now?
Carl Lavender 55:48
Two things stand out to me right now. First, Foot Locker. They’re in a transitional phase as a company, but they chose to relocate their headquarters to our city. If I were mayor or head of economic development, I’d ask: “What can we do with this?”
Foot Locker doesn’t make shoes—they sell them. That means jobs in customer service and retail. Why not build a Customer Service Institute in South St. Pete? Why not a store on 22nd Street? Rob Gerdes said the same thing—open a store and make it meaningful. That’s how we turn presence into purpose.
Second: 3D manufacturing. We now have the largest 3D manufacturer in the world right here. What does that mean for workforce development? We should create a five-year pipeline in collaboration with St. Pete College, PTC, Eckerd, USF—build an academy. Get CodeBoxx and CodeWiz at the table. Tie it to the Science Center. We can’t waste this opportunity by just celebrating it as a headline. Let’s make it a footprint.
Carl Lavender 58:09
Of all the directions you could have taken that, you went straight to economic development and jobs.
Carl Lavender 58:19
Absolutely. Economic development is the great equalizer. Equity is a balance sheet conversation. If you have equity—personal or financial—you have leverage. Without it, you struggle.
When I took the job at City Hall, I told the mayor and Doyle that the Office of Equity belongs under Economic Development. That’s where transformation happens. Putting George Smith in that department was a smart move.
Carl Lavender 59:03
There’s an old saying: the best solution to the affordable housing crisis is more high-paying jobs.
Carl Lavender 59:08
Exactly. And if you look at the housing dashboard Amy Foster built—my goodness—it’s excellent. People can critique all they want, but the data she’s leading with is powerful. It’s improving lives across demographics. It’s a major accomplishment.
Carl Lavender 59:27
We covered a lot today. I’ve really enjoyed the conversation. Thank you, Joe.
Carl Lavender 59:30
Hope I did okay.
Joe Hamilton 59:34
You didn’t go Maverick!
Carl Lavender 59:37
(laughs) I couldn’t! It’s great to see you—takes me back to when we first met at PTC.
Joe Hamilton
Jim’s in Mexico, by the way—living on the beach.
Carl Lavender 59:49
If you’ve got to do it, do it right. Send him my regards.
Carl Lavender 59:53
Will do. Thanks again, Joe.
