Joe Hamilton 00:46
Joining me today on SPX is former governor, mayor, drug czar, restaurant tour. You’ve had a pretty good run. Bob Martinez, welcome sir. Good to be with you. Jim. So one of the things that’s really interesting about your journey as you’ve had heavy run in local, heavy run in state, and heavy run at the national level. And let’s talk a little bit about juxtaposing those different areas of politics. I think you’ve said in the past, local is about filling potholes. State gets a little more philosophical. National is even beyond that. How would you categorize the three?
Bob Martinez 01:21
Yeah, that’s a pretty good start on describing the differences between the various levels of government. And I really first started on the southwest Water Management District board, and Governor Rubin askew appointed me in 1975 and I became chair of the board. In 79 is when I ran for mayor and got elected. So I’ve actually have done regional, local, state and federal. But before I got actually into public positions, I spent about nine years dealing with the state of Florida, the school board and federal government, representing the teachers of Hillsborough County. So I wasn’t a novice in terms of how government function and the integrity that’s required to serve in public life and the challenges that you face when you’re in public life. So I was not exactly a beginner when I got on the Swift mud board and then when I got elected mayor. So I think that helped me a lot. I had gone through budgets for years. I had dealt with statewide issues for a good number of years, so I think they helped me a great deal. When I finally decided to go into the elected office position,
Joe Hamilton 02:37
That’s great and making the transition between them, what was the biggest new brain area you had to go into moving from to Mayor to Governor.
Bob Martinez 02:45
City of Tampa has a very strong mayor system by city charter, so you’re really a CEO in charge of everyday running of the city, and generally city the size of Tampa, you can pretty much see for yourself what’s going right what’s going wrong. And every time you go out to eat at a restaurant, somebody will come up to the table and tell you what’s right or what’s wrong. So you have direct information from the citizen in terms of what they think to be important. It’s also a non partisan office, though it has been getting more partisan statewide, so I’m not sure any non partisan officers left anymore, but at the time that I ran, the parties were not involved. So it truly, in my opinion, was a really a non partisan office. So it’s retail. You’re running businesses, you’re running a water department, you’re running a police department, you’re running a fire department. All these agencies are businesses, and so you’re running a whole series of businesses that’s tied together by city charter, so you have a lot of hands on and you really know for yourself what’s going on, what’s going right, what’s not going wrong. And in essence, is a lot of fun for that reason, because staff isn’t telling you necessarily what’s going on. You’re seeing it yourself now as you move upward, then the governor, now you’re into a partisan environment from 67 counties, 120 House members, 40 state senators, and at that time, we had six Cabinet members. Everyone has an agenda. So there it gets more complicated, and you’re more into parents. See laws that regulate the transfer money to one place or another, to monitor the spending of that money. So different ball game altogether. You’re not as operational as you are as a mayor where you’re operating departments. So it’s a little bit more difficult in terms of gathering information, in terms of making decisions based on information you receive or that you hear about, or someone brings to your attention, whatever. And it takes longer, because it is a an arena of great debate. Fortunately, in Florida, they only meet 60 days a week on a regular session. Unlike some states that they’re kind of meeting you around and I speak on behalf of the executive branch of government, obviously, when I say that, but far as was an exciting state, it is an exciting state. It’s a state that has changed dramatically my lifetime, from being a very rural state and depending on winter tourists to make the economy go and the citrus industry to make the economy go, to now very vibrant, say it with a mixed economy and a huge population. So I kind of have seen that transition, and was part of that transition when I elected governor of Florida, is when we first had 14 million in past Illinois. Now we’re somewhere around 25 million just in that period of time. So and it’s much more diversified. Agriculture is not as big a thing as it was when I was growing up in Tampa, and while serving as mayor and serving as governor, technology is more present. You’re having more corporations located their offices in the state of Florida. So all of this has been a dramatic change from when I first started in the political process.
Joe Hamilton 06:04
Yeah, and you mentioned the strong mayor system in Tampa, and there was somewhat of a weaker, we’ll call it Governor set up in Florida that transitioned a bit during around your time of being Governor, where some of the larger controlling boards collapsed into the under the governor’s control, then I think leaving just agriculture and maybe one other one from an efficiency standpoint, obviously, you know, you run the risk when it’s a sort of a single power source that can really get stuff done, that there’s they’re also singular in sort of how they see the world. But then you when you go into the more spread out power base, I mean, I think it’d be obvious that you lose efficiency a little bit with more cooks in the kitchen. So as you kind of experience both of those, can you talk about your feelings on the efficiency of strong leadership, getting stuff done, versus the what might be lack of pleasing everybody, if you’re going down one partisan path and but to have that big mix in there, it reduces efficiency. So how did you manage the two different sort of points of view when
Bob Martinez 07:03
I got elected governor in 86 two thirds of the Florida House was Democrat. The majority of the Senate, obviously, was Democrat. There were six Cabinet members. They were all Democrat. There must have been at least five, six major agencies that answered directly to the governor cabinet, not to the governor. Like half DLA the Office of Management, they had a Department of Natural Resources back in those days, and that answer as well. So there was a number of those that you had a shared responsibility with six other people. So that made management a lot more difficult and complex in terms of a robbery decision to make any kind of a major, major move. That changed when Governor Jeb Bush got elected and the Republicans took over the House and Senate, and they put a constitutional amendment, reducing it to three Cabinet members and removing a lot of those agencies that answer the governor cabinet, directly to the governor. So that’s when it changed, which was a great change, in my view, that took place, they also made some other changes in terms of civil service. At the time I was governor, other than your secretary and the deputy secretaries, everybody has civil service. So there’s not much you can do in changing directors or anything else that got changed as well, where I forgot how low it went in terms of management, that civil service no longer applied in that position. So all those changes took place once there was a change in control by the party. But while I was there, the Democrat Party had control of the legislature with one major caveat, that when I campaigned for governor in 86 four powerful senators went with me. Democrats went with me instead of my opponent. So when we all got sworn in and the Senate convened those four Democrats, joined with the Republicans and ousted the incoming Democratic leadership of the Senate, and had a bipartisan leadership in the Senate, so therefore I had an ability to engage in a lot of policies, like preservation, 2000 on environment and transportation reform because of the Senate, that the House couldn’t steamroll me, although they had more than two thirds, they just couldn’t do it because I had a coalition going in the Senate. So that was really helpful, and it was kind of unique that that happened. But it did happen, and without that, it would have been all Democrat. Now while serving a Secretary of State, George Firestone resigned to go to the public sector, and I appointed Jim Smith, who was a former Attorney General for the state of Florida. So he became the first Republican to sit on the cabinet. And. Then when Bill gunner decided to run for Senate, he had to resign from the his position as treasurer, and we got Tom Gallagher to run for that office, and he won. So by the time I left office, we had two Republicans on the on the board. Now I will have to be honest with you that there wasn’t a lot of turmoil on Governor cabinet meetings. About the only time that partisanship Rose is, though, if there was a vacancy to hit up one of the agencies. But in terms of agencies operating stuff like that, I can’t really recall a major battle at all, and I think I only had one or two vacancies occur in those four years for which there was debate and you had to negotiate. The governor had veto power, so I had negotiating capability. But generally speaking, despite the fact that Democrats dominated the cabinet, relationships were generally good, so I can’t complain about that at all.
Joe Hamilton 11:00
One of the big takes on social media is that it’s driven partisanship deeper towards a person’s identity. You know, it used to be, I believe in democratic ideas or Republican ideas. Now it is, I am Republican. I am Democrat. And you know, with that comes some more locked in, take it all or leave it all, kind of energy sometimes. And so, you know, how would you say, you know, with that in mind, in the general public, and then maybe, you know, matriculating up to the actual elected officials, how would you say partisanship has changed over the last couple decades?
Bob Martinez 11:33
Yeah, politics has changed. I mean, there’s some things that are basic. You got to get the votes. Obviously, that’s pretty basic. And you have to move around and meet people and things of that sort, particularly local offices. But as you move to the state and the federal, more and more, it’s PAC money, small groups a lot of with people have a lot of money, instead of having the large fundraisers. So that has changed. But I think what has changed more than anything else is a way that candidates now communicate with a voter, which is really moved from newspapers and even television, is getting to be almost secondary as they move to something else. But it’s also it’s got a lot more volatile. I don’t recall I being attacked personally, nor I attacking someone personally, nor my family being attacked, or my attacking a family, and today that seems to be a common thing to take place. So I think today you need a much thicker skin to get into the political arena than in my day, because there’s no holes barred and everybody’s an editor, everybody’s got columns of their own. And in my day, if you didn’t like what I may or may not have done, you had to write a letter to the editor and figure out that somehow would if your letter would get chosen among the many hundreds that they probably got, and the language had to be clean, and things of that sort. All that’s out the window now, and you can’t put it back on the toothpaste tube anymore. I mean, it’s out. So I think that’s changed a lot. I think it’s caused more controversy than ever before. I think it makes getting consensus a lot more difficult than it did before, because you’re always playing to an audience. There’s always somebody recording and sending out whatever it is, and so politics has just gotten to be more bare knuckle.
Joe Hamilton 13:21
Yeah, and how do you think that that has affected who runs in that? You know, maybe the pragmatic, thoughtful person doesn’t want threats on their family or themselves, and doesn’t want to be slammed every day, and maybe they don’t run, and it takes now a different kind of animal.
Bob Martinez 13:35
That’s an excellent point. I’ve asked myself, would I go out there in today’s arena to do that, and my own personal life, I’m kind of private, and to have to deal with this constantly, seven days a week, somebody posting something or sending nasty emails or whatever happens. So I don’t know. I do think you do get a different kind of candidate. I really do believe that. I’m not sure it’s ever been documented or not, but it has to be someone that’s willing to take those shots that you did something in the first grade, and now somebody found out you cheated in the first grade, and now that becomes an ad on the internet or whatever else. So that’s how far it’s kind of gone. So it makes campaigns more of a turmoil than policy, and I don’t think that’s good for the voter. I think the voter probably can get less informed than they used to when those things didn’t happen. But you know, as I said, before it’s out, it’s out of the toothpaste tube, and I want to be able to squeeze it back in.
Joe Hamilton 14:38
I break that down, sort of to first principles, it’s there’s a reality that’s happening, and then there’s a perception of that reality that reaches the average person. And you talked in the past, or even just mentioned now, about how you know, you got pushed back a layer from the average person when you’re at the state level, right? And now you have this filter of what is used to be largely media. You’re reading the paper to get your information. Yeah. And then, you know, staff and maybe some lobbyists or things like that. And so it’s much harder to really connect. So there’s, again, there’s a reality filter incoming to you, and that same reality filters is going through the media, out to the public. You know, now that filters changed to your point. It used to be, you know, a thoughtful editor, ideally, who would pick some letters out and kind of keep, keep some civility attached to that, and some general value to the content, to just a free for all. So, you know, in your experience, just having seen reality happen, and you making some of that reality to how it ultimately ends up in the world, how big of a gap is there between the two? You know, the the actual accuracy between the two worlds,
Bob Martinez 15:39
You almost have to read an awful lot of different columns on the same subject to try to figure out which one may have the real information instead of the opinion information. And think that’s one of the things that the internet is almost everything’s opinion, very little is based on the actual fact. I was reading about this one national reporter that thought that President Trump had not done well. And another panelist said, Well, why are you saying that was I just have a feeling, because I just looked at this body language and I just feel that he didn’t do well. Well, you know, that’s not a fact. That’s her opinion what a body language is. And so that’s what you get a lot now, don’t get me wrong, I think there’s always been and news columns opinion by the topic you choose to write about or how you approach the topic you want to write about. So I’m not naive to believe that before social media came along and the internet came along, that those things didn’t happen. But they weren’t as obvious and they weren’t as exaggerated as you find today. And I don’t do social media at all. I mean, I’m pretty good with a computer for my age. I just don’t want to do it. So I read publications on the internet, obviously, but it’s like a war field – it’s a constant war going out there. I’m just not interested in that. I’m just interested to find out what the day’s news is, if it’s going to be good or bad or what. And to do that, I wrote a whole bunch of news website to see if, by reading a number that might come out to what seems to be prevalent view on whatever happened on that particular day.
Joe Hamilton 17:18
That makes sense along those lines. I mean, I think that the proliferation of information is a problem as well. I just, you know, I don’t think the brain, human brain, is caught up with processing and the information that’s given to them, and partly that’s because the internet has given people a real channel. But becoming an expert, it’s a specific kind of bent that they have on being an expert. But I think about a topic like offshore drilling, you’ll get an environmentalist talking about the risks, and they’ll know it inside and out, and it’ll be true. But you also talk to the corporate person that says, hey, this is part of our bottom line. It creates jobs that tax base helps tourism, even though it’s a risk to tour. And so there’s all these different deep understandings from one side of an issue that do have truth in them. And when you listen to any one of them, it’s hard for the average person, the person that’s giving them some information is an expert, right? And some of their stuff is true, but then they are supposed to hear all these different things and then parse them out and come to some conclusion, and that’s just really tough to do.
Bob Martinez 18:13
Yeah, campaigning and governing is a lot different. On paper, it doesn’t seem to be different, but in reality, how it functions. It’s become much more ideological than pragmatic, and even at the local government, here’s some of the debate that’s taking place, and it’s kind of ideological, and is it better? I don’t know. I’m old school. I guess I don’t think it is better, but I’m old school. It didn’t happen like that when I was in public life, but things do change, and you have to adapt to it.
Joe Hamilton 18:46
Yeah, and I think you could say at the very least, it’s a reflection of the changing times. Because if the internet is ideological, then sort of it makes sense that the candidates and the election process and the comms in how you run have to also mirror what the world is telling you is going on out there, right?
Bob Martinez 19:02
Well, it’s kind of interesting, because I still have candidates that come by to see me that either to talk to me about issues, or would I land my name for their fundraise or something like that. So the first thing I tell them is, and don’t use Twitter. I don’t use any of those things. If you want to communicate with me, you won’t have to text or use email, because they use all these other platforms for their campaign. I said, if you want to communicate with me with any of those platforms, I’m not gonna be answering because I don’t do them.
Joe Hamilton 19:34
I want to touch our conversation about ideology. You know, you famously switched from Democrat to Republican after, you know, I’m sure a piece of it was a meeting with Ronald Reagan. And, you know, I think that’s been somewhat documented. What I’m curious about is how you know, if you were to summarize your experience as a Democrat and summarize your experience as a Republican existing in those parties, what were the noteworthy differences between the
Bob Martinez 19:57
two parties? Well, when I was a deal. Democrat. I was just a registered Democrat. I never went to any of their meetings. The whole county was Democrat there in Hillsborough County at that time. Fact, I had a funny story about my first registration in 1956 I was at the University of Tampa, and I just turned 21 so I walked across the Hillsborough River to the old courthouse, which, unfortunately it was torn down. It was just really classic. And so I walked into the supervisor of elections, and there was one person behind the desk, like you are, and I said I came here to register. So she gives me an index card to fill out. And it had worked to fill out, but it was an index card, so I hear this booming voice from the back Supervisor of Elections. Name was Diego. He says, Son, if you want to vote in Hillsborough County, you better Mark D, which I always go to Mark D anyhow, but there’s no hesitancy about that. And I have, I have original on that the supervisor election tracked it down my first registration, my only registration, never missed a vote. So it’s the original. So I left it as a D. Most candidates when I was dean on behalf of the teachers unions that we supported were Democrats, but there were hardly any Republicans running to start with. So in 1980 when all as Mayor of Tampa, Senator Laxalt from Nevada, asked to come by to visit with me, this is after there had been a wildcat strike for the sanitation workers. And I broke the strike in three days and suspended the union for a year while I made major changes which was allowed by law, and I think that caught the attention of the national Republicans. And I also had reduced the millage first, and I took it from 9.65 to down to 4.6 something by the time I left office. But anyhow, I think some of that had gotten out. So he came to visit with me. And I’m a Spanish heritage. My grandparents came from Spain. Lex saw a Basque neighboring Spain, so I think the affinity politics, you know, he’s Basque of Spanish ancestry, and so we talked for a while, talked a little about our ancestors and stuff like that. So he said, Well, you know, the President would like for you to consider changing parties. And as well, yes, a nonpartisan office, and I’m not thinking about the party while serving as mayor is just not something I thought about. And so as well, you know, you govern like a Republican. You did what you had to do with wildcat strike, and immediately you begin to find ways to reduce the property taxes, and you sign, you’re acting like a Republican, you know. So he’s giving me praise. And so I think he’d gotten you some news coverage saying why he was in Tampa, and it gave me a lot of, you know, praise as a mayor. Well, he doesn’t see it. Re election in 82 so President Reagan assigns Orrin Hatch to come by to visit with me. And so Orrin Hatch comes and we have lunch. And same thing, you know, my changing parties and all that. And as well, you know, I like to not partisan officer. Haven’t used partisan one way or the other. And he’s, well, you know, you just govern like one and you’re registered as a Democrat, and as well, that’s sort of the way I’ve been voting in terms of what was available in Hillsborough County. So he leaves, and we elect was in 83 and shortly after, I get reelected, and I had indicated at that time that I would not seek a third term. I would only seek one more term. In fact, I put on the ballot term limits for the city of Tampa at the same time which passed, and the city has term limits. So after that happened, I get a call from the White House that the President wanted to visit with me and where I’d be when they were to to Washington to meet with him. So I said, Yes, I would. So I knew there was nothing to do with the city, because I didn’t have any thing pending in terms of grants or anything like that that was in trouble, what we were seeking. So I knew what it was it had to do with with political affiliation. So I said, Well, I better buy my own plane ticket. This is not a government trip. This is a political trip. So I did. So I flew up there and back then. You may recall, while you may be too young, it was airlines were still regulated. There were flights to DC constantly, back and forth. The planes were half empty all the time. So I was a day trip. I showed up here late morning, and I think my appointment was at two or 230 somewhere around there. So I get called into the Oval Office. And I had been in the oval office before with Jimmy Carter, so it was not my first time in the White House or in the Oval Office. And there’s also vice president George A. Bush. And so the President gets up from behind the oval desk and to greet me as I walked in the door, and he said, Bobby, I’m Ronnie. And I said, Mr. President, I’m delighted to meet you. And he, like I was, always get briefed who you were to meet with, and you have a little book about and people still call me Bobby. My wife called me Bobby when I went I don’t have any friends left. And went to school with me. They passed away. But you know what’s the old saying, once a Bobby, or you always a Bobby? So, so he knew that, and so we talked about one thing or another. And finally, I was waiting for the for the ask, because, you know, it wasn’t just to have a conversation about how’s Tampa doing and whatever. So finally he said, you know, you and I are much alike, so tell myself, well, here’s coming. Let’s see which, this is where organized well. He says, You know, I was once a union leader and you were once union leader. I once had a break or strike. They are controllers, and you had to do the same thing as a whether you’re a sanitation department, I was once a Democrat and I’m a Republican. There’s only one thing you haven’t done that I’ve done, and I like for you, is consider changing parties. So of course, I thanked him from what all he had said, and I said, well, on a major decision like that, I don’t make it without my wife and I consulting about an issue. So I can’t give you an answer now, but I also will think about it, and when I make a decision, I will call your office and let you know what the decision is. So I knew that when I called press corps. So when I went out, sure enough, there’s a gaggle out there. Why are you here? What are you talking about? Who paid your way? Are you changing parties? They’re trying to recruit you. And of course, you’re being as generic as you can be with all your answers. Other than I paid my own way, there was no doubt about that one. And so their press corps, the White House press corps, let it run for maybe 1015, minutes before they broke it up. And then I go to Washington National to catch my plane back home. And there’s a few out there waiting for me as well. And then when I landed here at the Tampa International Airport, there’s a bunch of the local media waiting about what I did and why I was there and so forth and so on. So probably I forgot the exact date right now my Well, sometime in June, I called the White House and I said, or the police tell the President that I’ve made a decision on my party affiliation and then I’m walking over to the supervisor of elections this morning with my wife, and that we’re both changing political registration. So they must have called. I didn’t call the media, but when I got there, all the local media was there, so I’m sure the White House muscles press corps must have notified the local media. So that’s sort of how it happened. So then he had me speak at the convention that Reno that nominate him for a second term, which was in, say, it was, I think, was in Dallas. And then he appointed me to a couple of federal boards, appointed my wife as well to a Federal Board, and, you know, just developed a relationship.
Bob Martinez 19:57
Tell me about the conversation with Mary, you know, when he came back from meeting with Ronnie, and we knew this was happening. But here was the ask. What was the conversation that led to the change going to feel?
Bob Martinez 19:57
first thing that got me involved running for mayor was attorney by name of Clint Brown, still lives in Tampa, and he was my personal attorney and my business attorney when I was with the teachers and when I bought the restaurant. And so he did my legal work. Yeah, so he’s the one that convinced to run for mayor while I own the restaurant. I’ll never forget when I announced for re election for mayor, I said, I will not run again. And he called me immediately when he read in the paper. He said, Why did you do that? I said, Well, I’m not running again for mayor. Two terms is enough. He says, No, I didn’t mean that. I mean for governor. So I just kind of laughed on the phone and see that’d be kidding. He was a bond grant is turned out. So there’s a vacancy. You need to consider that. So don’t be going around saying you’re out of politics, or you’re done with politics, or whatever. And so I didn’t say that. I just said I wasn’t running for a third term. So without, you know, let it ride for for a while, but is he kept on as well with the record you’ve had, I had reduced city staff. I had privatized a lot of the government activities, like like solid waste pickup. Half of the city went to the private sector. I reduced the millage. Had had the union issue where I had basically broken the Union. He says you don’t have a home of the Democratic Party. It says all those things that you’ve done is not something the party is going to accept, and you’re not gonna be able to explain it. So if you were gonna be able to succeed in a statewide race, you wouldn’t have to run in the Republican Party. So that took place after I came back from Washington, you know, because it was a couple of months before I decided. So I had a lot of conversations with my close friends about it, because it’s one of those things you don’t turn back once you do it, but that’s sort of what it was. It just, you know, the way I had governor as a mayor just didn’t fit the pattern of what a Democrat mayor would have done.
Bob Martinez 28:05
You talking about Mary Jane, my wife? Yeah, yeah. Well, we both suspected why I had been invited to go there, right? Of course, that’s before the day of cell phones, so I didn’t call her, my memory serves me right after I finished with her gaggle, I just rushed to the airport to catch my plane, and I gave him a pay phone booth to make the call. So I waited all the way. I waited until I got to Tampa, and, of course, went home, which I lived there in Beach Park. So it’s like a 15 minute drive from the airport, and it was by then, it was early evening. It wasn’t late at night. So we had dinner and we talked about all that had happened. Then whenever he would visit Florida, the Tampa Bay, he would always call for me to ride with him in the limo wherever he was going. And that’s how my wife met him as well. So that’s the story on how a part of change took place.
Joe Hamilton 28:05
When you were talking about, obviously, you’re looking at the benefits and the costs and the risks, and you know, how much of it was tactical, how much of it was philosophical, how much it was just opportunity. Because, you know, you seem to be fine. You seem to be pragmatism driven, right versus ideologically driven. So I’m sure there had to be some pragmatism in the decision, but also there’s a belief structure. So, you know, how’d you weigh them.
Joe Hamilton 31:45
During this time, you know, you mentioned this whole process of making a decision, it was out in the press for months and meetings and then some decision time in there. What was your relationship like with the democratic power base at the time? Were they equally pressuring you to stay or to be more democratic?
Bob Martinez 32:00
No, you’re not one active in the party other than I was registered. It’s not that I had in any way been involved as a party at Harper. I never gave a contribution to the party. I didn’t hold any position in the party. I didn’t attend their meetings. I was just registered that way. They obviously did not like it. I had Republican members of the Republican Party that weren’t happy because they thought it was an opportunist to change from one part or the other, and they had in mind and immediately speculated by my running for governor. That’s why I did it. And they speculated, right? And the leadership of the Republican Party back then had little fry as very possible candidate to run for governor, who was a congressman out of the Orlando area, a nice, real nice guy, good congressman. So I wasn’t exactly welcome by the top leadership. Now the rank and file did, and there was constantly being invited. Was being at the local meetings and all that. And I did do that if it was within 50 miles of Tampa, I didn’t want to go around that stage. So I went to that period where the Democrats were really upset. Because, you know, I got a lot of national news and a lot of state news, and that may cause others to do the same thing kind of thing, but it all eventually just died down. In fact, one of the interesting stories of Senator Langley out of just north of Orlando, real conservative, came up with ABM, anybody but Martinez, I don’t know if he had chosen yet a candidate, but because I changed parties and all that sort of I’m campaigning, and I’m picking up same and the early polls had me already ahead of all the Republican candidates and already had raised more money. And he calls me and he says, You know, I made a mistake, and I want to have a news conference with you, and I want to take back what I said about ABM and he did over and over, I think we did in Orlando, if I’m not mistaken. And then anything else staunch supporter out there, particularly this conservative organizations within the Republican Party.
Joe Hamilton 34:14
You mentioned, you know, him being a staunch conservative, and then feeding that back over the conversations you had with Orrin Hatch and Reagan, those seem to be more about governing style as far as unions and financial elements. Not a lot of talk about some of the more philosophical elements of Republican versus Democrat. And it seems like maybe when you talk about staunch conservative, does that lean more into the some of the philosophical issues?
Bob Martinez 34:40
No, I can’t say that on my meetings with them were philosophical at all. There were pragmatic, operative type of questions and discussions about how things ought to be run. I never attached any philosophy to it. Efficiency is efficiency, solving problems, solving problems. Problems. But in today’s political environment, everything has an ideologue behind whatever you do. Back then, Democrats know Republicans, although they did that, you know it’s just you either believe you ought to save the water you don’t believe it. There was no ideology about it. Basically, you just wanted cleaner water, and that was it. You didn’t attribute all kinds of other things to it. And today, everything you come out with spreads out into all kinds of directions as to what it may or may not mean in some other group’s mind. And you know, I didn’t have to suffer through that.
Joe Hamilton 35:33
And it seems like, you know, while you said you weren’t super active with the Democratic Party, you did bloom into activity with the Republican Party, speaking at the convention and being of more.
Bob Martinez 35:43
There’s a huge amount of party changing that took place after that. Connie Mack, Ireland was a congressman, whole bunch of sheriffs around the Panhandle county commissioners, and I used to go to all these their press conferences, and it’s all Reagan driven. I think probably I by having held the high position I did, and having done it, and having survived it, that it may have encouraged others to do it as well. But the impetus was Ronald Reagan, the way he governed, the way he spoke his view of government as, I think, was a cause of it. And you know, the original Democrats in Florida were really conservative in the old yellow dog label. And I think there still are those left in Florida, you know, particularly the panhandle area, the non urban area, where there’s still majority Democrats register, but they always vote. You’re Republican in the general election. And so I think there’s still a lot of that in Florida, but yeah, it was quite a bit of it going on back in those times the Malcolm be rewired, state senator from Florida, from Hillsborough, changed parties as well. While I was governor, it was just a period of change, and it took a long time for Republicans become majority party. And you know, under Governor DeSantis, it became majority party, and Hillsborough just became a majority Republican county. And when I ran, I don’t know, I must have been like 7030 or 6535 something like that. And here it is now, the majority of the registered voters are Republicans, so it’s been just an incredible change. So I guess I was kind of a pioneer when it began, but here we are, yeah,
Joe Hamilton 37:29
After the governor’s interested as governor, their what was on the table, you ultimately ended up being in a cabinet level position as the quote, unquote, drug czar with George HW, what were sort of some of the opportunities or potential paths you were looking at, and then, you know, how did you ultimately end up in that spot?
Bob Martinez 37:47
That office was completely different from the two previous ones that I had. It was a policy office, so you really didn’t operate an agency that interdicted or arrested, or treated or educated, you develop a policy for those things to happen, and you present it to the President for his acceptance, and then you build a budget around those things, and then the President would accept it or modify whatever you wanted to do, send it to Congress, and you got your appropriations. And then the drug Czar’s office this job was in be sure that the agencies that receive this money, be they federal, state or local, carried out the policy of your administration. The exception was the international I used to travel quite a bit of Latin America, and there you were directly dealing with the president so their drug, whatever they would call them, but domestically speaking, would deal with the state of Florida’s and ftld, maybe, or whatever. But generally, even then, unless you were invited to speak, you only dealt with the governmental agencies that didn’t seem to be carrying out the President’s policy or not spending the money based on our auditors how they should be, based on the policy the drug Czar’s office really of direct employment. Maybe a couple of 100. The rest of them were tasked from the CIA FBI and Department of Defense DEA. So they made up the bulk of my staff, and they had their connections back to their own agency to carry out the public policies. So it’s kind of a unique thing. Was a policy office, so it wasn’t operational, in a sense, it’s a running a drug bust or anything like that. Why did you take that job? Well, I had created the first drug Czar’s office in the United States when I was governor, and Florida had been a huge problem while I was mayor and governor in terms of drugs surfacing in our waterways and isolated airports and. And so we had an issue. So I probably had fairly far governor, had pretty good experience with a subject only because of what was happening in Florida that time. So when I didn’t get reelected, as we go back to a private sector, I, however, had been one of President Bush’s national co chairs when he ran for election. So he quickly called if I bill banner wanted to retire from that position, and wondering if I would take it. And I said, Sure, I’ll do it. So that’s sort of how it happened, all by phone.
Joe Hamilton 40:36
Tracing where you came from – your only child, right, in a very rural, you know, non paved roads, kind of environments, you know, just outside a lot and doing outside stuff. And you know, you as you progressed up, you know, the quote, unquote ladder when it comes to jobs, did you have to process the largeness at each new level? Or did that come pretty naturally for you, you know, just in the responsibility and the players at the table, and you know, the scope of your reach and your influence, you know the some pretty big jumps there even going to from, you know, Mayor to …
Bob Martinez 41:10
I think I had an advantage for nine years. I dealt on education issues. School boards, the biggest employers in the state, so I was dealing with big local governments already I ever, let’s say, a session I was in Tallahassee, so already dealing with big state government, I did that for nine years. So I was not a novice. I’ve been to a lot of Governor cabinet meetings. Knew everybody. Everybody knew who I was, and I knew everybody as well. So I had that advantage when I entered the political arena on a personal basis. And I had was involved in enough campaigns in those nine years to know the mechanics of a campaign and the do’s and don’ts of a campaign. So I was not a novice at all when I personally entered the political arena, whether it was a by appointment, by Governor Ashley or by election. So that was really helpful. And think it was in 1971 72 if I’m not mistaken, Terrell Sessoms became speaker of the Florida House. So the teacher organization asked me to be the chief lobbyist for all of them, because I had the relationship with a late speaker, Terrell septums, who really was committed to education, so he was really a delight to work with. So as I said, when I personally entered the political arena, I can’t sell as a novice, because I had raised money for somebody else, not for me, and had campaign for somebody else. So I knew what had to be done. Of course, I didn’t do the hours that a candidate did? You know I only would do maybe an hour or two, something like that, but I knew what it would take. So I mean, to that degree, they helped a lot, and which is also for my wife, she saw what I had done all those years, and she was a head Media Specialist at King High School throughout the years that I was the head of the teachers and then while I was mayor. So she had experiences in public life as well.
Joe Hamilton 43:16
This is a bit of a tangent, but I’m curious about space. You were very active in bringing there was the space, space port, yeah, space commission. And talk about why you feel like that was important, why space wasn’t going to space and and all that entails, was an important endeavor for America, and then leading up to where we are now with, you know, Elon and privatizing space. What’s your general overview on the importance of it and how it’s how it’s developed?
Bob Martinez 43:50
Kennedy Space Center was there. There were a number of large corporations from the Orlando, Brevard County area that had that service in Kennedy Space Center. And so at some point this is going to expand and enter the private sector. It can all always stay, you know, with the government and the military. So I went to the legislature and created space sport authority, and also had a site for rocket firing up in the panel that did not work out, that that didn’t work out. But today’s Spaceport is very active. But it came because a discussion with some engineers, and I forgot whether it was why I was meeting with them, but the whole subject came up about space, and they were talking about all this advancement was going to be taken his space and that the eventually, the private sector is going to get in it. And I said, Well, telling we’re already there. I mean, we’re already firing rockets from Florida. So one of the, I think the first session 87 had a bill drafted, and the legislature did pass it. And created spaceport Florida, until they today, they’re pretty darn busy, and I think there’s no ending to what can happen. You could run out of space for spaceport, but nevertheless, right now, it’s a godsend, I think, for the whole industry.
Joe Hamilton 45:15
There was a time when after, I mean after the Challenger accident happened right around there and we launched, there was a decline in US, you know, a long hiatus, yeah. And so ultimately, did you see at the time space as an inevitability, and why not make Florida the place for that, almost as a business decision? Or were there other elements that drove you to do that?
Bob Martinez 45:36
Pure business decision. It was interesting because when the tragedy of the Challenger took place. I had just had a fundraiser in Broward County, and so we’re heading towards Brevard County for the afternoon space fundraiser. So we’re in 95 heading north, and my driver was Brian Ballard, well known lobbyist now in Tallahassee. So what kind of he’s listening to rock music? And we’re just, you know, I’m scared, you know, damn, there’s no cell phones here. Perhaps you have to stop picking a public phone or go to somebody’s office, whatever. So we’re just, he’s listening to music on kind of writing, and look up, and all of a sudden we see this black plume in front of us, and the radio comes on, a music stops, an announcer comes on to make announce of what happened. And there we all were driving towards Cape Kennedy while there’s how we did not see the explosion we just saw was the tailings of the black smoke that stayed there forever, appeared forever. And I don’t say that triggered it, don’t get me wrong. But then I forgot what year that fired the first rocket, after the challengers tragedy, and I remember going to environment to go there, because it was a big thing to start over again. And one of the things that was kind of interesting is that John Travolta was sitting there on the stands watching the event, but already had done space sport, and I don’t know whether a challenger had an impact or not. I don’t think it did. I just saw it as business that this is where it’s going. Maybe it’s not tomorrow, maybe it’s not even next week or next month, but it’s going to go there, because nothing stands still. So what may be a primitive effort now is not going to be primitive in the years to come.
Joe Hamilton 47:24
And that’s kind of what I was giving was with that happening, and then the hiatus, did you ever say, oh, man, maybe the space thing isn’t going to be what we thought it was going to be?
Bob Martinez 47:30
Well, we didn’t really have any capital investment, because we were using the hardened facilities already there. It was creating the authority with a board and a staff to begin the process of planning to have these moon shots or whatever go from spaceport. And obviously it was being subsidized with state funds, so that there was no revenue at that point. But it worked out. Clearly, it’s one of those things. You know, sometimes an idea comes through and you do it. I had same thing, preservation, 2000 the big land purchasing thing. So when we came up with that, I said, Well, I don’t want to fund it on an annual basis, because it means every year you don’t know what you’re going to get. So you have to spend your money on an annualized basis instead of be able to bond for the future and get large chunks of money at one time. So I said what I’m gonna propose is a 10 Year program using the growth documentary stamps to retire the debt, bond debt. So it won’t be a new tax. It just capturing the growth of the state, which would then was already put darn good. And of course, the legislature like the annual thing, because then they would, every year, decide what? Yeah, so, but they were shocked that I was out there as an environmentalist. But that’s what I was when I was mayor as well. So it wasn’t new to me. So I finally, it says it’s either this way or no way. I am not going to have a program that every year you have to lobby for an amount of money, and you can’t really borrow any money because you have an unstable source of revenue to retire the debt. So it’s either this way or there won’t be a program. We’ll continue to do it like we are and get nowhere. So finally, a real strong environmentalist and the Democratic sides accepted that. So that 10 Year program, I think it was 300 million a year. So over 10 years, with $3 billion and 1,550,000 acres were acquired during that time. And that was it had a became a very bipartisan thing after that. Now it’s called Florida forever, because it was a 10 year thing, and when it expired or renamed it Florida forever. I called the presentation 2000 because it would be between 1990 and 2000 and where you want to change the millennium. So that’s why I ended up calling her preservation 2000
Joe Hamilton 50:03
and is all of the million 50 acres they still locked up, or something reported.
Bob Martinez 50:08
It’s all on Mother’s Day. They’ve added since then too. So I don’t know what it is right now, but that program end up with 1,500,000 but we did that, and we did these surface water management act to protect springs and rivers. And believe it or not, there was no solid waste legislation in Florida, so we have that done, and a whole bunch of environmental things that they didn’t expect a Republican governor to be advocating.
Joe Hamilton 50:34
And with that, how did you handle that? As far as you know, you’re wrapped into this new party. You’ve got aspiration, I will say. But you’re, you know, you’re playing at the at the national level, and you do something that is not traditionally Republican. Is that a big hassle? Or did people just, you know, was there just enough? Okay, I get it and they let it go. Or how did that play inside the party?
Bob Martinez 50:54
The Senate in particular was some state Republican senators who were real strong environmentalist. Kaiser was a strong environmental and Pete Dunbar as well. So there were some real strong advocates for the environment, but the party had an image of just not, you know, cut down the tree and build a house kind of thing, you know. And it wasn’t really true. There were some who may have thought environment was not a great issue, but within that group of the House and Senate, you did have Republicans that believe in the environment. Again, as you said, I grew up in an environment. Some of my family members were in the dairy business, so I grew up natural environment as a kid. Then while mayor, I did the refuge to energy plant, where you no longer buried garbage, and you didn’t just have raw smoke coming of your incinerator. I did the finished the tertiary treatment plant and captured its methane to generate power to run the plant. So I had done a number of things locally and related to in the environment. And you know, I It’s, I don’t take environment is a philosophical thing I’ve taken as a pragmatic thing, that you can make things better without hurting something I believe in esthetics. City of Tampa is first tree ordinance. Legislation, I recommended it billboard legislation, first one to recommend on billboards as well. So I think my upbringing had a lot to do with it. There’s no doubt about it. You know, grew up in a beautiful environment in terms of its nature, and you don’t forget that when you spend your early years in that kind of playground, because that’s what it was for us kids. It was a playground, you know. So you just, you know, just don’t forget that my criticism when I was mayor, or the way the state was doing it, is that they never did much of anything. Is buy 100 acres here or buy 300 acres there, and and they came before the governor cabinet, and there was a lot of debate about which set of acres we ought to be buying. And so I said, This is no way to ever accumulate land. So that’s why I decided I go for it. I knew that the Democrats were buying to it, but also knew that they didn’t necessarily want to lose control of how much money you’re going to spend yearly to get it done, and because I came out of local government that you did big projects by bonding, because you could get things done at the current price and have the newcomers help pay for it. You know, they always say, well, bonding, you got to pay interest. Well, pay as you go. It takes years to get there, and therefore everything you want to do costs more every year. So my view is doing now, if it’s a need, do it now and at the current price, and have newcomers help pay the debt service by their presence in your community or in their state, whatever it is. And that’s you know. So I did that locally for the refuse agent, energy plant and some transportation and all that. So I think that’s what made the difference. And at the time we did it, was a biggest land acquisition program in the United States, including the Federal program. So it’s, I would say, What gave you the greatest amount of pleasure? That would be one prepaid tuition is another. And we did that, and my twin granddaughters were born in July of 86 and I got elected in November of 86 so they had contract number one and contract number two. But yeah, it’s been a privilege, you know. Is it something that you didn’t know was going to happen? People ask about why you did it, or how you did it. Even today, people that see me and you look back, what gave you the tendency to do what you do in life? And I was always active in school. Fact, I won the very first election in the first grade. I got elected May Day King for Tampa Bay Boulevard, and my queen was Martha Montana. And every every class, there was 90 kids in the school, very small elementary school, and every class selected candidates, and then there was a vote, and every kid knew each other. From first grade to sixth grade, there were so few of us, every kid knew each other. So that was my first election, and I was active in student government in high school, and I became homecoming king. Then, you know, at an early age, I joined one of the Civic clubs. So I was an athlete. I was a captain of the basketball team, and made all city baseball and so I was constantly being engaged. So if I, if I’m going to look at a candidate say, Well, tell me what y’all did before you got to this point, and to see if, in fact, they had a similar path or not. Because some of the young candidates that I’ve talked to over the years, they just woke up one morning and decided they want to be a candidate, but were not active when they had an opportunity, whether it was in school or with a chamber or whatever. It doesn’t matter what they sort of been on their own by themselves, but now they want to be a state senator, or they want to be the State House member or whatever it is, but had not shown any inclination in the past to engage. So always, kind of look to find out, have they engaged in the past in their lives, either by working at a non profit, by as a volunteer or whatever. But just to show that it’s more than you.
Joe Hamilton 56:35
good lesson in there, because you know, you’re with these kids in elementary school every single day, five, six years, you can’t hide who you are, so you got to have a good, long term relationship and long term integrity. And they know you, and if they’re still voting for you, that says something, yeah, and there’s a lot of winning. I mean, you talk homecoming and all that sort of thing, very few losses, but a couple in there. How deep did those cut? Or were you pragmatic about those two?
Bob Martinez 56:59
Clearly, as you well know, winning is far better than not winning. But if you enter the political arena, you have to accept the fact that with that, can’t happen. And so if you don’t think you can really take that, you shouldn’t get in a public arena, because the loss is known by many, and if you’re not able to cope with that, you may not be even be a good candidate, for fear that you can’t win. So every time I’ve been in a race, I’ve assumed I was going to win. Didn’t win them all, but I assumed I would. And yeah, it takes a few days, a few weeks, to get over a major loss, but life goes on. But I’ve always known you that you always have the possibility of not prevailing, so that life has got to go on. Just can’t quit life. And I never did you know when a loss has just moved on,
Joe Hamilton 57:48
Wonderful. Well, I think that’s a good endpoint to our conversation, because that’s a word is to live by, for sure. Just keep going. And if you would have stopped at your first loss in elementary or whatever, and you wouldn’t been gone the journey you had. Well, I’ve really enjoyed the conversation. I thank you so much for your time, and thank you for your many years of service, and that you’re still here and still active. I think that’s a good life. Well lived so far. Well,
Bob Martinez 58:10
I enjoyed you did a great job. I enjoyed being here with you and keep up the work. People need information all the time, and it’s sometimes hard to decipher, so I think it’s a neat thing. What you do?
Joe Hamilton 58:22
Appreciate it. Governor, Bob Martinez, thank you, sir.
